Jar of Clay Part 1: Intro to Living from the Heart Jesus Gave You

What if your faith could be the key to unlocking deep healing from trauma and complex psychological disorders? On this episode of the Hopeful Perspective Podcast, we kick off our "Jar of Clay" series by exploring how the church can become a sanctuary for those grappling with trauma and addiction. Drawing from my personal experiences dealing with Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID) and the transformative insights from "Living from the Heart Jesus Gave You," we ponder how faith can guide us from the shadows of past grief into the light of future glory. By equipping the church to address trauma and addiction more effectively, we lay out a vision for a community that mirrors Jesus’ love and compassion, offering true restoration and hope.

We'll also uncover the profound impact of the Life Model framework in healing severe trauma, with real-world applications in places like Sudan and Southeast Asia. Relational joy, Emmanuel awareness, and community nurturing aren't just concepts; they are lifelines that can lead to remarkable transformations. Join us as we discuss how biblical counseling bridges the gap between spiritual and psychological healing, offering a balanced approach to overcoming disorders like DID. You'll hear why conventional therapy often falls short and how an integrated, Christ-centered approach can help individuals reclaim their identity and maturity. This episode is a clarion call to recognize the power of community and faith in guiding us toward wholeness and resilience.

Chapters

• 0:00 Jar of Clay Series Introduction
• 13:12 Relational Joy in Healing Trauma
• 22:31 Healing and Redemption Through Biblical Counseling

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to the Hopeful Perspective Podcast. I am your host, jason Hopkins. This podcast is designed to give you a perspective of hope that impacts your daily life in an authentic and tangible way. I opened the first six episodes where we learned how my life story illustrates God's glory. Through my own experiences overcoming child abuse and trauma, 26 foster homes and institutions, various diagnoses affecting me throughout my life and an eventual brain tumor resulting in multiple brain surgeries on my brain stem. I have moved from merely a surviving former victim to a faithful and godly thriving victor who has moved to help others discover hope. Though my past was full of pain and suffering, I have been restored with purpose and sanctification. I have been redeemed. I have also been called to follow Christ in my redemption. I want to thank you for listening and taking the time to download our episodes, as when you download, along with rating our podcast with an honest response, you certainly help the algorithm immensely to spread our reach. Our stats demonstrate that while thousands listen and stream the Hopeful Perspective, less than 10% actually download our episodes. We have also provided a few options to either contact our show with your direct feedback, as well as to support the podcast financially if you are called to partner with us in bringing hope to a hurting world.

Speaker 1: 1:35

Last week, we finished up a series entitled the Bible and the Ballot. Upon reviewing the scriptures, I believe the Lord encouraged us if not challenged listeners to move deeper into our critical discussion on faith and politics, where we were challenged to rethink the depth of our political allegiances and to prioritize our heavenly citizenship. We further explored what it meant to be a committed believer in a contentious and partisan culture. This series was so timely given the deep division we are experiencing as a country. So if you're not caught up yet, I want to encourage you to download the Bible and the ballot. But I am so excited and encouraged for our next series together that I am calling Jar of Clay.

Speaker 1: 2:21

This is a series based on the healing resource, a book called Living from the Heart Jesus Gave you one that has deeply impacted my personal journey with dissociative identity disorder and helped me to live and even lead when I battled this rare and intense personality disorder. So if you have questions about what it was like for me to live and learn while living with DID, then you will want to be tuned into this whole series. I also strongly urge you to grab a copy of the book Living from the Heart Jesus Gave you by Wilder, friesen, kopke, berling and Poole. Trust me when I say that, though it is a quick read, it is a treasure chest of biblical nuggets for anyone who needs to move from past grief to future glory in Christ. Before we delve into today's topic, though, I want to compel you, as always, to grab your favorite snack, hot or cold beverage. Get comfortable and come on this journey with me as we explore what the Lord showed me as I was afflicted with dissociative identity disorder, and how he was able to bring me through it. When we begin to talk about this book, I could literally just read it, and I know it would impact your life just as it impacted my own. What we will be doing, though, is I will gloss over highlights and key points, as well as delve into my own personal battles, wage, living with dissociative identity disorder and the truths I picked up along the way as I learned to live from the heart that Jesus gave me. I want to give full credit where credit is due. You know, like a sight, a work sighted, if you will, so you can assume, in this episode and the entirety of the series, that the major therapeutical insights are from this book, though I will have made that clear already and I'm certain you are capable of deducing that, given you have chosen to download at least, I hope, fully downloaded the episode, as we encouraged you before the podcast that will be partially entitled this way anyway. So let's get started delving into the insights available for us.

Speaker 1: 4:51

As I began rereading, one of the principles that impacted me from the jump was the synthesis the book has with equipping the local church. Before we jump, in the first chapters we read how the Christian church is the only global force whose calling it is to love and reach even those who we see as enemies. I mean, how biblical and how sobering is this fact. Friends, if you are a believer, you are part of the most significant special operation force on the planet. I think this also puts our last series, where we discussed the biblical principles of how we treat our enemies across the political spectrum, in real perspective.

Speaker 1: 5:41

In real perspective, this is particularly important when we read that, just as I had, that most new converts to Christianity come from backgrounds of trauma and or addiction. Such individuals have impaired maturity and relational skills and need to be equipped with healing and restoration. Perhaps you remember episode 10 discussing when we discussed this in some detail, and this moves past just simple conversion. The clinical solutions outside the church available to these people battling addiction and trauma are left to those with advanced degrees. They're expensive, they're complicated and they just don't replicate themselves. Expensive and extensive training is necessary if people want to help in these areas. Therefore, if the church wants to move forward, it must be willing to provide the hope for healing that individuals facing these issues actually need.

Speaker 1: 6:42

To address these needs, however, we read in this book that, while the church has shown a capacity to change culture of the past, that it lacks that vital function in some of the Western world at this time. This fact alone would leave a listener discouraged. Yet we can be hopeful that the point of this resource is to help empower the church to regain a part of its influence, to help the least of these To understand the hope. One has to willingly, even if painfully, look at the hurt. We know our world is affected by evil that spreads through every community or group and leaves behind trauma and, as the book says, resulting in the weakening of relationships, trust, love and joy.

Speaker 1: 7:31

To hear that I could have been one of the three abused children that grows up to be an abuser is absolutely unspeakable. When I consider the influence I've been able to have in my community as a father, uncle, youth pastor, pastor, coach, friend, I cannot imagine instead wielding influence to cause intense pain and trauma instead. Yet two-thirds of addicts report being abused as children, and the children of addicts are three times more likely to be abused given their vulnerabilities. Or how about, if that child wants treatment, that the cost for recovery for one abused child is calculated by the insurance industry to be an ear-shattering $15 million? You're shattering $15 million, friends. These are just a few troubling facts that, if you listen to the six raw testimonial episodes I shared my story, you actually heard someone living out some of these statistics.

Speaker 1: 8:37

We can all agree that for the church to be effective at being the hope for hurting people, we need to have both biblical and innovative resources that actually impact the people that we are trying to reach. Living from the Heart Jesus Gave you provides a model that is both biblical and innovative and is largely based around what is called the life model. Let's listen to how the authors describe what will become a foundational pillar in their book and therefore our series. The life model is a unifying approach to ministries of counseling, recovery, pastoral care, prayer ministry, deliverance, inner healing, child-rearing, body life and health. The life model is a multi-generational model of redemption and maturity, from conception to death. While the life model incorporates the best in science and medicine, we were careful to create a model that was not based on Western education but rather on biblical worldview that is thousands of years old and well-tested for the transformation of identity, character and culture.

Speaker 1: 9:47

I know that one of the most significant modern spiritual battles that wages within the church is what to take from our scientific, medical and that includes psychological and philosophical advances and studies, while applying them with and against the biblical worldview. Now, if you've heard me on this podcast, you've heard and will hear me say again that in my experience I believe that God's word and God's world do not contradict. So therefore, we need to make and take advances in our sciences and our innovations accordingly to the Word and also realize that the facts and history we learn in our education are not the same as the agenda or the worldview of the educators themselves. Many need to rewind and replay that last statement. We could do a whole series on epistemological worldview and discuss how many believers that genuinely found God as youth went off to university as a student to have their beliefs challenged by educators who convoluted facts with opinion and therefore the student of the educator began deconstructing from their faith. I talk to this person all the time.

Speaker 1: 11:07

On the other hand, many churches remain stuck in the dark ages because they believe making any advances that the Bible does not literally write about somehow blasphemes or violates God's character or their place in the kingdom, and so they reject many godly scientific or their place in the kingdom, and so they reject many godly scientific, medical or psychological gifts to his children. There are spiritual battles and specifically people's faith being caught up all along the spectrum that we could do a series about, as I have already discussed, but we do not need to digress any further. I mention all this because I appreciate how the studied, professional, credible, bible-believing and esteemed in their field authors of this book found a balanced model that meets in the middle. This model has found its way all around the Christian church, from the evangelical to the Anglican, coptic, roman Catholic, eastern Rite, catholic Holiness, coptic, roman Catholic, eastern Rite, catholic Holiness, arminian, wesleyan, calvinist, salvationist, pietist, reformed, lutheran, messianic, anabaptist, brethren, apostolic, the Emergent, pentecostal, mennonite, vineyard, yom and Baptist, and that is just to name a few. My friends, I personally have not heard any program or model that is capable of being considered more truly interdenominational.

Speaker 1: 12:34

The late Dr Dallas Willard had this to say about living from the heart Jesus gave you and the life model as he actually used it as a textbook in seminary classes. Model as he actually used it as a textbook in seminary classes. Quote the life model is the best model I have seen for bringing Christ to the center of counseling and restoring the disintegrating community fabric within Christian churches. Unquote. I believe it's noteworthy to say that Dr Willard was instrumental, along with his wife, jane, who worked with the Shepherd's House, which is a ministry that the model was founded within, and advancing and spreading the influence of the book and the life model.

Speaker 1: 13:12

The life model has been utilized all around the world and it's in the most trauma stricken of locations Governments, prisons and schools from Sudan, columbia, nigeria, southeast Asia, atheists, jews and Muslims. They have all invited the life model into their life to begin resolving trauma and pain. So let's get to the heart of the matter. What makes this book, this model and the principle so biblical, so effective to so many people in diverse backgrounds, beliefs, countries and cultures. Why did I have such profound success in dealing with over 100 personalities and dissociative identity disorder founded with severe trauma experienced in a traumatic childhood, including satanic ritual abuse?

Speaker 1: 14:01

While in the occult, at the heart of the life model, is what they call relational joy, also, emmanuel, awareness of God with us, transformation of character, growth of maturity, nurturing a multi-generational community, recovering from trauma, development of resilience, prevention of predatory personality development and hope for the lower joy places of the world. They all require relational joy, and relational joy starts with knowing who we really are meant to be, when we see ourselves and then see others through the lens and awareness, or I'd say the spiritual discernment, of the heart that Jesus gave us. This, my friends, is the core and the center, or the heart, of the life model. Ah, ah, ah. This is a part, though, where I encourage all of my listeners, particularly those of my hopeful fam who are less affected by trauma, though let's be real, we have all been affected at some level or another. Yet some of you may have less experience with trauma or addiction, and so you believe you may struggle connecting with this series, but hold on.

Speaker 1: 15:24

This model is for both the leaders of the church and for the wounded in the community, and that's directly from the book, not just for me. Therefore, it is for all of us. In order to effectively serve, a leader needs to understand people and how easily their hearts are broken. Jesus made this his number one priority in shepherding his flock, as he talked, walked, ate and stayed with them. Experience. In the Western church anyway, I have seen a lot of people who call themselves Christ followers, who struggle immensely doing the above things with the broken, the burden, the addicted or the afflicted. But it's one thing to struggle with being like Christ and doing as he did and commanding us to do so, and it's another in being disobedient. So, and it's another in being disobedient. Jesus gave his life to heal broken hearts, to conquer sin and death and all their effects, and we leaders are to follow his example and sacrificially serve the weak and the wounded.

Speaker 1: 16:34

So don't think for a second that this series, this book or this life model need not apply to you. I sincerely implore you, encourage you and I challenge you. Stick this one out. As the authors explain, experiencing God, loving one another and bearing one another's burdens as scripture states will become richer and more natural as you learn more about receiving and giving life. That is what living from the heart Jesus gave you is all about Receiving and giving life, reaching a higher level of maturity, healing life's inevitable traumas and having our lives governed by the joy of the Lord. This happens not in our isolation, as my story has informed me, yet it occurs in family and community Hopeful family. We need to know who we are. The life model has taught me that we need to be reminded who we are on a regular basis by those that love us and really know us. This is because our hearts need repair so that we can truly live from the heart that Jesus gave us.

Speaker 1: 17:48

In my darkest moments of treatment, my most discouraging moments of recent, my friends and loved ones are the ones who spoke life and love and reminded me of who God created me to be and dispelled the lies of the enemy. And love and reminded me of who God created me to be and dispelled the lies of the enemy. Imagine for a moment, not to create sympathy but for the sake of understanding, the moments I encountered where, before Christ, I was most alone and lacked voices of truth in my life. Imagine when, more recently, I experienced a lack of relational intimacy with my friends due to seasonal priority or proximity changes, while I was experiencing the deepest and darkest nights of my soul following brain surgery, severe changes in my personality, my calling, even questioning my faith and belief in God, and I felt especially spiritually naked and afraid, broken and alone. This actually happened for me and this is often what it is like for those who experience trauma in the church, most often and most common due to people's lack of understanding, probably more than their lack of empathy.

Speaker 1: 19:06

The life model provides insight into all of this. After all, it takes a whole lot of work in the area of maturity a term you'll hear a lot of in this series, and as I have personally experienced it, it takes God's hand to boost people when they are stuck and it takes a lifetime for those in trauma and for those called to help them. You know one of the major paradigms held by a portion of Christians, mind you, that pushes my buttons to pray harder. Many of the same Christian people that have difficulty walking with others through their pain and trauma are the ones who declare counselors as quacks, or some even declare a Christian seeking any reform from the psychological realm as being anti-biblical. So apparently, a person who has experienced the traumatic effects of sin just has to pray harder and read more biblical passages to overcome their pain, even when the very truth they are supposed to be espousing encourages them to help to carry one another's burdens, for which they struggle with in the first place.

Speaker 1: 20:15

The word they presume the hurting, turns to declare that all truth, anything that is found to be reality, absolutely true, is God's truth. Therefore, if an expert in science, mathematics or psychology makes a discovery in the 20th century that is found to be true, then hasn't God already known it to be true all along? You see, all of that expression of one of my grace growers, known more commonly as a pet peeve, to say that this is why the church often has difficulty helping or connecting with the deeply wounded and afflicted portions of our communities. We have presumptions that are even unbiblical, that place ourselves and the traumatized in double binds. The truth is we need counselors.

Speaker 1: 21:03

As long as there has been sin in the world, there has been a need to have people that are both called and trained to help find biblical hope and joy for hurting people. The authors of Living With the Heart that Jesus Gave you remind us that, quote. There would be no need for counseling, except for the damage caused by the sin and the fall. Since then, all creation has grown and no human being has grown straight and true according to God's design, except for God's only begotten Son, jesus, unquote. So I want to gently but directly challenge any that have the mentality that Christians shouldn't pursue counseling and or that the Bible states something along those lines, which isn't true. Look if you are listening and you have access or possession of a verse or passage that teaches otherwise. I am always eager to learn and even willing to change my ways. So please be sure to use the link on any episode page, directly contact us and I will certainly take a look at it. That all said, I believe and the authors of this model ascribe to the belief that there ought to be an integration of biblical truth and innovation that occurs, to the belief that there ought to be an integration of biblical truth and innovation that occurs. That is, the most effective course for therapy would be to work with a trauma specialist that is approaching your mental and spiritual health from a biblical worldview.

Speaker 1: 22:31

I will make this declaration loud and clear. There are certain afflictions and conditions that I genuinely believe. Secular psychology is underwhelming to effectively serve the afflicted. This comes from years of dealing with a rare and acute personality disorder. My experience with DID is a prime example where the spiritual warfare compounded by a demonically oppressed personality system capable of influencing my body and mind to do things beyond what is considered healthy or typical, to the point that is almost supernatural, demonstrates how a worldview or paradigm lacking a spiritual component would fall grievously short in being able to assist me in dealing with a disorder founded and grounded in spiritual grounds. On the other hand, I hope one could also see the damage. A Christian therapist who is only trying to approach it from a Christian perspective, by air quotes, praying away or exercising the demons un-air quotes. They perceive that I, with DID, would have that actually happened also. Mind you, both are extremely detrimental and people who experienced my level of acute and severe trauma are damaged further without the balanced biblical counselor who has the heart and training necessary to walk with the broken.

Speaker 1: 23:59

The biblical counselor, just as all mature believers do, participates with God in helping others put their lives right with God again. We see this biblically expresses as the working out of our salvation daily. The life model explains how trauma is the pain and injury that is left behind in our identities that render us less than what God intended when he created us. Trauma blocks growth and blocks or slows maturity. Traumatic wounds are caused by adding something to us we should not have, or caused by taking something away we were intended to keep In DID. This is most obvious as I should not have had the ability to switch personalities when triggered or to turn off my physical pain when it was needed. I shouldn't have been able to hear people from across a crowded room when I was most vigilant. I also shouldn't have lost the ability to trust women or authority figures or lost the ability to know or experience healthy affection, physical touch as a young infant Already.

Speaker 1: 25:05

At this point, when you have noticed a slow or blocked maturity in a person, you should be looking for one of these two types of trauma that have or are happening in your life. Are you feeling like you are turning into an impactful counselor? Yet, along those lines? We learn in the first few pages of Living from the Heart that Jesus gave you that sin adds or subtracts from our heart, from three sources the world, the flesh and the spiritual world, or what the book called evil spiritual beings. Christian counselors must address these evils, but not just by human strength, wisdom or plans. Rather, it's the work of Christ's redemption, and he alone is worthy to direct and achieve His divine purpose in our salvation and our healing. They must follow His leading in helping to remove what is blocking or hindering growth and holiness, to add that which is lacking for complete and full life in the Spirit, and also to address misdirected spiritual growth. For example, the godly counselor seeks to remove that which is unseemly and even deadly from the lives of those whom they shepherd and to add to their lives the necessary missing nutrition supplements.

Speaker 1: 26:14

Regardless if the genesis of the story was crooked and evil, there is an ability to redeem it for Christ's glory. For example, when the drug addict is capable of not just becoming sober from the drug of choice, but when they're able to address the root of their unworthiness, where they were told when they were younger they would never amount to anything at all. And so they grow up with that evil and wicked lie and they learned to silence it and numb the pain with drug or drink. But once they could address that lie and speak truth to it once and for all, they could find a renewed identity in the one who made them, they could learn to deal with their pain and experiences, feeling comfortable and normal with themselves, no longer needing to escape their pain. This is an example of addressing misdirected growth. The lie of you are unworthy, growing into pain that needed to be numbed, leading to an addiction, and the Christian pastor or counselor is critical in applying integrated therapy backed by the Word of God to reveal the error of misdirected growth and revealing God's truth to you and his desire for you to grow and thrive. The truth found in a life of repentance, confession, forgiveness, leading to healing, deliverance and spiritual relationship with God and his people, where prayer, praise and worship and the fruit of the Spirit form godly character. And now true maturity is growing, but only because it can grow in the fellowship and the family of God. Yet nothing of this miracle that is in his redemption and maturing is in us, that I have experienced in my own life can occur unless we have yielded ourselves and found a situation that is safe to do so. I'll be honest with you.

Speaker 1: 28:09

I was in a variety of the conventional and traditional therapeutic environments all through my life, from the time it was nine years old through my adulthood. Therapeutic environments all through my life, from the time it was nine years old through my adulthood. I was addressing issues from my childhood abuse to depression, to anxiety and anger, to suicidal ideation, to personality disorders, ptsd, I mean, you name it. I was told in each and every situation that I, as a client, was safe and this was a place that I could speak honestly, was safe and this was a place that I could speak honestly, and in some respects I'm sure it was. Yet this had two back-end issues to it. First, the counseling room was the only place in the world where it was safe to speak honestly and without repercussion. I mean the real world. I couldn't be honest to my foster parents, my schoolmates I couldn't be honest to without being bullied. This was a dead-end paradigm. Second, being the client, I was the only one in the room being truly vulnerable and authentic in the dialogue, which then truly was more of a monologue.

Speaker 1: 29:10

The legality and the ethics of the secular therapeutic world created boundaries and bound the therapist who could not share their personal identity or imperfections without being inappropriate. These double binds and shortcomings of secular therapy are why I have had literally hundreds, if not thousands, of people walk through my door as a biblical pastor doing biblical counseling where I'm not bound by the same ethical restrictions, which more so indicates the reasoning that we all need to belong to community where there is a reciprocating and life-giving culture. People in therapy that are in this kind of community have their lives nurtured and they generate energy to move through the double binds. This all comes directly from the life model in the book. They encounter a community of other authentic and vulnerable people and they therefore forge an identity based on the hearts they were created. This is what the life model is all about.

Speaker 1: 30:14

Now, I'm not wholeheartedly denouncing the secular therapy model, as there is good that comes from the worldview Christians can see is actually found first in scripture. Yet I do think it is a significant challenge to succeed in therapy without a therapist who is capable of being authentic, vulnerable and relatable to the people they are helping, as I was able to experience in my first pastor and biblical counselor, john, who showed me unconditional love and therefore was able to help initiate true redemption and renewal when I was 17 years old and first found Christ. John was not only safe, but he was authentic and real. He was there all throughout my life. My multiple times I was diagnosed through my treatments and he, therefore, was a key instrument that Christ used in my healing.

Speaker 1: 31:02

Secondly, we are challenged in our modern therapeutic model when we are not able to have a healthy, authentic, caring community experience around us. And that is where the church is called to acknowledge that we are all broken, that we are all face woundedness. We all face addiction or what the Bible calls idolatry. We all face oppression. We're all challenged spiritually and we all need community and to be surrounded to work through it. See where many of us have come from healthier families of origin, though you too will have your issues that the Holy Spirit will compassionately confront you to courageously deal with in your life. Others of us have to look to our church families for community and for belonging and what the life model calls power. This is where people find their identity, where they're supposed to find help in becoming unstuck and where they should receive light.

Speaker 1: 32:02

Maybe some of you today have walked away from that community and are feeling isolated. Perhaps you were compelled earlier by any of the many points about pursuing healing with a biblical counselor Resuming your restoration or your recovery journey, or maybe you're moved by the fact that you need to move closer to the afflicted in your church family or your community, either direction. I would be remissed if we left our time today without providing an opportunity for us to respond to Christ, and I want to pray for you right now. All of you listening either agree with this prayer or lift those up that are needing this right now. Lord Jesus, I repent all of my sins and surrender my life to you. Wash me and cleanse me from all unforgiveness and all pride. I believe that you are the Son of God and all pride. I believe that you are the Son of God, that you died on the cross for the forgiveness of all my sins and you rose again on the third day for my victory.

Speaker 1: 33:04

I believe that in my heart, I make confession with my mouth that you, jesus, are my Lord and my Savior and that your kingdom is forever. I want to live my life according to your terms and I want to change my reliance for myself and any earthly vessels I have placed hope in, and instead I want to trust your plan and ask for you to put the people and the processes and the models to pursue restoration into my life. I ask for you to reveal to me where I have neglected the needs of those who are broken around me, where I have neglected the needs of those who are broken around me, where I have become indifferent and capable, where I have been unable to prioritize those that need to feel the hope of Christ. Thank you for being a God of mercy, a God of healing and a God of truth. Jesus, forgive me for all of my sin, and might I become one who is a beacon of hope. Of hurting to the world, hope to the hurting. Give us spiritual eyes to see on earth as it is in heaven, and may our priorities begin to reflect your heart and your kingdom, for it's in your name, jesus, I pray Amen. If you have today agreed with this prayer from the depths of your heart, I want to welcome you to the eternal family of God and I want to commend you in your return to faith, if that is indeed what you've done, I want to continue, as an encouragement to you, to find an orthodox, biblical-based faith family who worships the Lord passionately, and also devote yourself to the reading of the scriptures, as there is much to grow, to learn and to be discipled in as it pertains to new life and maturity in Christ.

Speaker 1: 34:48

Next time, on the Hopeful Perspective podcast, we are going to continue our series Jar of Clay, where we delve more into the intriguing book behind the healing that I experienced with my dissociative identity disorder. As you can see, there is so much that can be said short of reading the book to you guys and talking for an hour. Yet I'm so pumped where we are going with this. I hope, believe and pray this will be transformative for whoever listens, at whatever stage in the development you are in. So I'm looking forward to being with you next time.

Speaker 1: 35:23

On the Hopeful Perspective, remember, if you haven't already, don't forget to check out the book Leading from the Heart that Jesus Gave you, for this is the text that we're going to use for this entire series. Until then, I want to thank you for joining me along this journey and if you'd be so kind to follow, subscribe and, most importantly, to rate and write a review for others on your platform who may need the hopeful perspective in their life, did you know that you can contribute monetarily by pressing or support the show link that is embedded on your platform in the episode descriptions? All of your contributions are utilized to grow the podcast, to multiply our equipment, to broaden our reach and to share the hope of Christ. I want to shout out my gratitude to the multiple new donors who already have made this commitment to support the podcast financially. Without you, it would not be possible to reach as many people with the messages we do, or anybody who needs to be reminded that hope is real. So thank you so much in advance. Until next time, remember you are loved.